Catherine Sendak
Hello, my name is Catherine Sendak and welcome to CEPA’s, “State of the Alliance”, a series bringing together leaders from Europe and North America to discuss the most pressing challenges of our partners and allies. Today, I’m honored to welcome the Lithuanian Ambassador to the United States, Ambassador Audra Plepytė. Thank you so much for joining us this afternoon.
Audra Plepytė
Thank you for having me.
Catherine Sendak
So with the ongoing Russian invasion into Ukraine and the upcoming summit in Vilnius, there’s much to discuss. So I wanted to get started. We are 16 months into Russians invasion into Ukraine. I would love to hear your assessment how you think the alliance is doing so far in its support to Ukraine.
Audra Plepytė
Possibly, maybe small correction, it’s not like 16 months, the war in Ukraine started 2014. They shouldn’t forget that, I mean, annexation of Crimea, and Donbass and everything. So the war has been going on in Ukraine since 2014. And that’s the country which has the longest war in Europe. For more than a century, probably even the Second World War, First World War lasted shorter than this. And I have to praise the Ukrainians, I mean, since during especially those 16 months, they showed heroism and leadership, true leadership, as people, as the president and all the government, how you have to face the enemy, and to do so I think that as well. Also, shows the leadership, the US government, the administration, who even before this invasion, in 2022 February, they already forging the Alliance, global allies to support Ukraine. And that’s, I think, the biggest achievement, because now we are in the 16 month after the second phase of this war. And we see the strong support to Ukraine, what kinds of weapons they get support from over fromUS, from Europe, but also from other countries. That’s amazing. And I think it’s also the biggest, the big achievement also support the military, but also, on the sanctions, economic, we witness this winter energy support. So yes.
Catherine Sendak
It’s been absolutely tremendous. So to that point, we have the summit coming up in just a couple of short weeks in Vilnius with a very aggressive agenda of what things the alliance would like to get done with big goals, including regional plans that they want approval on, outstanding membership for for Sweden, coming into the alliance, and, of course, assistance, further assistance and assurances for Ukrainian security. With such a robust agenda, how would you judge a successful summit? What is the successful summit look like to you?
Audra Plepytė
It’s probably everything, you should be ambitious. If you want some success, we can just choose something from this important list that you mentioned. But I would say also, I think it’s so important that the summit takes place in Vilnius on the eastern flank of NATO. That’s even symbolic demonstration that NATO is to protect its all borders, and all the leaders from 31 country. And not only that from Indo Pacific countries, Sweden, who would be, we do hope, Ukraine and President Zelensky will be there as well, also to show unity, how united and we stand together in supporting NATO defending our all, especially eastern flank, but all the NATO and all our partners like Ukraine, I think that would be very important.
Catherine Sendak
And I do think it’s hugely symbolic that we’re having it in Vilnius, and I’m sure that everyone understands the significance of of having it right on on NATO’s eastern flank.
Audra Plepytė
But as you mentioned, as well, we need very strong decision as well, on regional plan, for air defense, to see what would how much we advanced since Madrid last year, on our preparation to defend and deter, and support Ukraine, if we can, what can we decide on the future membership of Ukraine into NATO.
Catherine Sendak
So I want to return to that, especially about Ukraine kind of security, assurances and guarantees but given the recent events in Russia, with what we’re perceiving as an attempted coup, you know, do you think that those events will have impact the agenda of the summit or change the tone of the summit in a few weeks?
Audra Plepytė
We will see how it will affect but definitely those event showed us something. There’s still, I think nobody exactly knows what happened and why it happened and what would be the consequences for Russia. But I think we can already make some conclusions that Putin has showed himself that he’s much weaker than probably some thought about that. And if some military forces also can march to Moscow so quickly or something like that, so this country just once again proves that is volatile, unpredictable and dangerous neighborhood, as well.
Catherine Sendak
And as Lithuania sits very, very close, to that neighbor.
Audra Plepytė
Very, very close, especially now while the troops and Prigozhin moving to Belarus, which is another thing. So even that also shows that they think we will not solve the internal problems of Russia. But I think we have to take really seriously what happened and to have our to do what we planned for us to strengthen NATO eastern flank to ensure defense, not only defensive deterrence, which is also very important. And the second thing to support Ukraine as well, they should win this war. And another thing I know that somebody will like thinking how Russia how Putin would react, we saw how he reacted when he was faced with this power and the decision he backed up. So I think that’s, that’s lessons which we can draw from from last weekend’s events as well. So that’s why that’s why we are advocating so much that we have to be strong in our decisions and unite.
Catherine Sendak
Absolutely. And hopefully, that will force some consensus within the alliance about how to move forward, especially in light of Ukraine and other challenges that the alliance faces. So getting back to Ukraine, you know, ideally, what would you like to see? What will Lithuania like to see in terms of Ukrainian partnership and membership with NATO moving forward?
Audra Plepytė
Ideally, of course, we would like Article Five, NATO membership, and we had at Bucharest already, which clearly stated that Ukraine will become a NATO member. And I think that’s the starting point as well. If you have the invitation for Ukraine, Vilnius, we will see probably it will be for the time being, it’s difficult to forge this consensus on that. But I think we still have important decisions to make there as well. Even changing the status of participation of Ukraine to in NATO, from commission to council, and there will be sitting among other members, NATO member states allies and willing to increase the cooperation and other institutions that would be also important and to prepare them to support and of course, to see for us would be very, how we can start the path to open the path into transatlantic integration transatlantic allies. So that’s, I will say, we also have, as you mentioned, couple of weeks, we will see.
Catherine Sendak
The pressure is mounting, you know, absolutely. And I think that that role of Ukraine and having a consensus about having a more robust relationship, it can’t be a repeat of Bucharest, to your point, it has to be something stronger, it has to be something with more teeth. And so we’ll see with the, with the summit. Yeah.
Audra Plepytė
And we have to help also Ukraine to be ready members of the NATO, as President Biden said, I mean, they have to make the own homework and to do. And that’s, I think, where we have to assist them as well.
Catherine Sendak
Yeah, absolutely. So from an Eastern European perspective, you know, coming out of Madrid, in last year summit, the alliance really had consensus on increasing presence and strengthening its eastern flank. How would you judge the work since Madrid in strengthening the eastern flank of NATO?
Audra Plepytė
As beside it now, what happened in Russia or something like that, so I think it’s really crucial it’s one of the most important thing that NATO takes appropriate decisions and steps to implement, which would really strengthen the eastern flank, and not only the defense, but deterrence phrase as well. That’s what the hearing so that it’s would be very important. And here I would, I could also share this this week’s news we had the Mini-, the Minister of Defense of Germany in Lithuania, who announced about the German brigade – 4,000 troops permanently deployed in Lithuania. It will not happen overnight. We know that we we never expected that because will has to make our homework as well to prepare infrastructure and to be ready to host this brigade, but I think that’s also very, very important step, how we have to ensure deterrence on the eastern flank as well. So it’s one of those steps, important steps. So just because it’s not nothing, so lots of work. You have to hang tight here on Sunday. But it’s very, very important and welcoming steps. They have also-, yeah, exactly. regional plans you mentioned when we started the discussion. So hopefully, there will be adopted in the summit. So they’ll have to ensure as well that all the regional plans, what we have, would be filled in with the real capabilities and capacities, 2% of each country’s for the alliance, that would be very important Lithuania now, for almost two and a half and more. Our goal is completely not two, three, and some of something that so that I think other allies would would follow that so.
Catherine Sendak
Well, I didn’t mention that, but that is it’s a really interesting point that it seems to be that the summit wants to emphasize that 2% is actually the floor, not the ceiling to encourage the members to to spend more than 2%. But to your point, it’s also how they spend that 2% and how they build up capacity and capabilities moving forward. So it’s gonna be very interesting on the reaction from the regional plans, and how that defense spending goes in that. But your your comments about the German brigade. I think that’s huge news. I think it’s going to be welcomed in the alliance. And we’ll see if other countries follow suit, which will be really interesting.
Audra Plepytė
In Lithuania it was welcomed, very much welcomed.
Catherine Sendak
Absolutely. So finally, I just wanted to bring it out a little bit and talk a little bit broader, you know, obviously, we’ve seen a ton of unity in Europe, post February 2022. But there are divisions as as there are, you know, in any issue, but unity has prevailed overwhelmingly, which is really heartening to see. And I think we all hope it continues, you know, even post summit, post this year. And and we can continue to strengthen the alliance and the European continent, that, from that perspective, what do you think the key to keeping that unity is in Europe moving forward?
Audra Plepytė
We have to work together, as we do now, I do remember a year ago, exactly a year ago, the saying, Europe or not only transatlantic alliance, so even as I’m as well about global alliances as well, united, how long it would last, it will not last too long or something like that. What we witnessed, it’s still there, the unity is still there, we survived a very difficult winter as well. Half a year ago in fall last year, it was difficult economically, for Europe as well, to face those challenges, not only to help Ukraine, but also to face challenges, energy and economic challenge back home. We did survive, and we are united as ever before. So I think I’m optimist in that. And I think we will keep united because the tectonic changes, strategic changes has happened already. If the many countries were dependent so much on Russian energy two years ago, not anymore. Everybody is planning already long term plans, how to be independent and not to relying as well. So think that changed sometimes maybe it doesn’t happen, the real changes or as quickly as we would like, but that’s alive. So I think we have to continue to be together and work together, facing jointly all those challenges.
Catherine Sendak
I think you’re right out. It’s not the same world as it was 16 months ago, and we have to harness that unity. Absolutely. Well, Madam Ambassador, thank you so much for your time and thank you for joining us this afternoon on CEPA’s “State of the Alliance”. Please, please visit cepa.org and our social media accounts to stay up to date on the latest analysis and events.
